He's not the Messiah, he just needs to buy a centre half. Photograph: John Peters/Man Utd via Getty Images
Preamble "You can't win anything with kids." Alan Hansen's comment was essentially right, but only if you measure winning by trophies. If you measure it by sheer joy, glory and memories that will keep you warm as you spend your last days engaged in a battle of wills with a colostomy bag, then you can win plenty with kids. Ask anybody who was at Old Trafford on 1 January 1989. If either side wins today's match between Manchester United and Arsenal, their fans will go home with a tingle of excitement that they don't get from any old three points.
On Monday, United played their youngest-ever side in a live Premier League game, while Arsenal could have six players aged 22 and under in their starting XI. There is nothing in sport to compare to the romance of watching kids: they are unfettered, uncynical and hint at a blindingly bright future. In reality it is sport's great delusion, as irrational as thinking the world will be a better place for your children, but reality can go hang for the next two hours. Let's concentrate on a game that – and I realise we've said this before – surely can't fail to be a belter.
Team news United are unchanged. Yep, Sir Alex Ferguson has named an unchanged side for only the second time in since May 2008. Arsenal are without Bacary Sagna and Thomas Vermaelen, who have failed fitness tests. Francis Coquelin will make his league debut in midfield.
Manchester United (4-4-1-1) De Gea; Smalling, Jones, Evans, Evra; Nani, Cleverley, Anderson, Young; Rooney; Welbeck.
Substitutes: Lindegaard, Ferdinand, Berbatov, Giggs, Park, Hernandez, Fabio Da Silva.
Substitutes: Lindegaard, Ferdinand, Berbatov, Giggs, Park, Hernandez, Fabio Da Silva.
Arsenal (4-2-3-1) Szczesny; Jenkinson, Koscielny, Djourou, Traore; Ramsey, Coquelin; Walcott, Rosicky, Arshavin; Van Persie.
Substitutes: Fabianski, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chamakh, Lansbury, Miquel, Ozyakup, Sunu, Wenger, Rice, Allinson, Groves, Selley, Morrow, Pates, Caesar, Hornby, Dido.
Substitutes: Fabianski, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Chamakh, Lansbury, Miquel, Ozyakup, Sunu, Wenger, Rice, Allinson, Groves, Selley, Morrow, Pates, Caesar, Hornby, Dido.
3.49pm "Feel a bit queasy about this one," writes Greg Stringer. "That may be the Morroccan-style humous I had for lunch (what is the preferred spelling for that? That's got to be worth 20 mins of email correspondence), or it may be anxiety you get when a team down on its luck turns up at OT to defy expectations. Interesting that all the title contenders are facing similar opponents in rapid succession. Three games in and Bolton have faced both City and Liverpool (with roughly similar results), while Spurs have faced both City and United – and City's was the more impressive result and performance. Arsenal have also played Liverpool and are due up against United. So there's ample scope for benchmarking. City are the most eye-catching team at the moment while Liverpool – I did warn you – are looking like a top-four team at the very least. Dalglish has bought very shrewdly. I had a feeling Downing could deliver for them. Utd should have had a long look at Adam. And then laughed (only joking)."
1 min Manchester United kick off from right to left. They are in red, Arsenal in a very, very, very, very, very dark blue.
2 min "I don't mean to add to Arsenal fans already burning anxiety," says Joel Reland, "but one of their substitutes (Ozyakup) doesn't even have a wikipedia page!" Worse still, I've heard a rumour that a couple of their lads aren't on Twitter.
3 min Nani plays a good ball inside Traore for the onrushing Smalling, who keeps his balance well and then lays the ball back to Cleverley, 20 yards out. The ball is a touch behind him, and he crunches his shot wide of the near post.
4 min United have started purposefully, as you'd expect. Rooney zips infield from the left and rams a 25-yarder straight at Szczesny, who holds on with Welbeck lurking.
5 min "Feel no anxiety before this match for the first time I can remember... sadly," says Allan Castle. "One of the benefits of Arsene's transfer strategy some of us are only coming to realise."
6 min Arsenal's first decent spell of possession ends with Arshavin trying to angle a through pass for Van Persie. Evans intercepted.
7 min Welbeck misses a decent chance. He was put clear on goal by Young, to the left side of the box, and he clipped a left-footed shot across Szczesny and wide of the far post. He might have done better, although the angle was not the easiest.
8 min Rooney uses Welbeck by not using him, instead playing a disguised pass to Young as Welbeck runs in the other direction. For a second it looks like he will be clear on goal, but Jenkinson and Koscielny crowd him out.
9 min Welbeck turns neatly in the box and then lays the ball square to Young, who bounces off Coquelin and falls over. Rooney appeals for a penalty but it looked completely fair, shoulder to shoulder.
11 min Walcott drags a feeble shot wide from 20 yards. Arsenal haven't really threatened yet, but they will be pleased enough with their start.
12 min Has anyone bought the 2010-11 Manchester United DVD? Is it as bad as it sounds?
13 min The lively Cleverley plays a good one-two with Nani and then has a 20-yard shot blocked by Djourou.
15 min Arshavin leaves his studs in on Jones and is booked. That was a bad tackle, his studs plunging into Jones's ankle, although I'm sure it was clumsy rather than malicious. Jones is limping at the moment.
17 min United win their first corner, down the right-hand side. It's swerved deep by Anderson and punched clear by Szczesny. Arsenal break rapidly and Van Persie's cross flashes across the face of the area with no Arsenal players in sight.
18 min "Man U are playing a different short passing game, unlike last season where they went straight to the flanks/Nani/Valencia," sys Stan Lee. "Sharp contrast to Arsenal, who have gone the other way." You're right that there is more sharp interplay around the box. Much of that is driven by Cleverley, so I don't know if it's a tactic that will go the distance.
19 min Cleverley is caught by Rosicky's flailing arm, and he has blood coming out of his right eye. He has jogged off to get it stitched up.
20 min "Is Cleverley the only player in the Premier league whose name is an adverb (albeit with a slight spelling error)?" asks Neil Stainthorpe.
21 min Still no real chances for either side. That Welbeck effort was maybe a half-chance, or a three-fifths chance. Walcott moves away from Evra in the box and stands up a pretty decent cross into a general area. The trouble is that no Arsenal players were in or even near that area.
GOAL! Manchester United 1-0 Arsenal (Welbeck 21) Danny Welbeck gives United the lead. Anderson played a lovely scoop over the defence – a bit like Scholes v Milan in 2007 – but Djourou unforgivably allowed the ball to bounce eight yards from goal, and as it kicked up off the pitch Welbeck muscled Djourou aside to head it over Szczesny. It was a smart finish and a fine pass from Anderson, but from Arsenal's point of view that's an Andrex-soft goal.
24 min That should have been two. The fantastic Chris Smalling, who is like an ersatz Alves at the moment, moves smoothly away from Traore in the box but then drags his shot across goal and wide. He was offside when he received the ball, although the flag wasn't raised.
26 min: PENALTY TO ARSENAL The accident prone Jonny Evans puts his hands on Theo Walcott, who makes the most of the contact and goes down. It was technically a penalty, albeit a soft one, and Evans is booked.
DE GEA SAVES THE PENALTY! Welcome to Manchester. It was a feeble penalty from Van Persie, sidefooted low to the left. De Gea got down quickly and pushed it away for a corner, at which point he was mobbed by his teammates.
GOAL! Manchester United 2-0 Arsenal (Young 29) A sensational goal from Ashley Young. Absolutely brilliant. Traore's defensive header came to him 20 yards out, to the left of centre. He teased Coquelin, threatening to go outside him, then zipped infield before curling a glorious shot into the far top corner. It should have been 1-1; instead it's 2-0.
31 min De Gea makes a double save from Arshavin and Van Persie. The first was a fizzing 25-yarder that De Gea dived to his right to push away. It came to Van Persie, but De Gea was quick to his feet to block the follow up. Within 30 seconds, Welbeck Houchens a flying header just wide of the far post after a long curved pass from Rooney. What an exhilarating five minutes we've had.
32 min "Surely, by now, Heskey is or ought to be a base for a kind of adverb? i.e. one on one with the goalkeeper, the striker fluffed his shot, Heskeyily," says Ryan Dunne.
33 min Arsene Wenger slinks back in his chair. He looks about as fed up as David Brent was when David Brent said, "Dawn I'm fed up".
35 min Danny Welbeck has pulled his hamstring. What a horrible swine fate can be. He's had the best six days of his life and now he is going to be out for at least a fortnight. Just before that, Howard Webb played the advantage when Arshavin, who has already been booked, went in on Young with studs showing. He almost looks like he's trying to be sent off. He certainly should have been sent off. Anyway, Welbeck limps down the tunnel to terrific applause, and Javier Hernandez comes on. Remember him?
37 min "My trail motorbike broke down in the arse end of Laos today," says Alun. "35c no water, a knackered bike and I don't speak Lao. I know how Wenger is feeling."
39 min United get a free-kick 25 yards from goal, to the right of centre. Nani boots it into the crowd.
40 min Jenkinson clumsily brings Young down on the edge of the box. He was the last man, but Young was running onto a long angled pass so it wasn't really a clear goalscoring opportunity. Therefore it's only a yellow card for Jenkinson. The free kick is 20 yards from goal, slightly left of centre...
GOAL! Manchester United 3-0 Arsenal (Rooney 41) ... and Rooney clips a beauty into the top corner. A delightful finish. He laid the free kick very short to Young, who stopped it dead, and then Rooney coaxed it carefully towards the top-left corner. Szczesny leapt to his right and got his right hand on it, but he didn't have enough strength in that hand to keep it out. It's Rooney's 150th goal for United, and Manchester 8-1 North London.
44 min This could end up anything. United are rampant.
45 min "Adverbial footballers," says Mac Millings. "Shipperley; Franny Lee; Cattermole, Lee."
45+2 min Rooney tries to score from inside his own half, drilling a flat 60-yarder towards goal. It was beautifully struck, but Szczesny backpedalled smartly and made a comfortable save.
GOAL! Manchester United 3-1 Arsenal (Walcott 45+3) The greatest comeback in football history starts here. Possibly. With United's defence staggered, Rosicky plays an angled pass to the right of the box for Walcott, who is played onside by Evans in the centre and sidefoots crisply through the legs of De Gea.
Half time: Manchester United 3-1 Arsenal See you in 10 minutes.
5.02pm "It is actually Manchester 5-5 London so far today," says Jon Fanning. I have no idea what this means.
5.04pm Watching replays has confirmed how lucky Arshavin is to be on the pitch. He should have been sent off twice, in fact. On the plus side, I have him in our office sweep for last goalscorer.
46 min Arsenal kick off from right to left.
48 min Szczesny makes a good save from Young, who drilled one low towards the near post from just inside the area. The follow up came to Young, at a prohibitive angle to the left of goal, and he flashed the ball right across the face.
49 min Nani wastes a good opportunity with an indulgent chip from a ludicrous angle on the right of the box. He had Rooney waiting, and Rooney gives him a look that isn't quite the look of love.
51 min "Jon Fanning is implying that Man Utd are from London," says Shoaib Hussain, "so City scored five, while United, Arsenal and Spurs have five between them." Oh. How hilarious.
52 min An imaginative angled pass from Rooney towards Hernandez is cleared for a corner by Djourou. Anderson swings it in and Arsenal clear at the second attempt.
53 min That's a terrific save from De Gea, his best yet in a yellow shirt. Rosicky floated a fine angled pass from left to right for Van Persie, who had run beyond the defence and cracked a right-footed volley that swirled away towards the bottom corner. De Gea plunged to his left to make a fine one-handed save. His reflexes were superb there.
54 min "Arshavin should be off but only once for two bookable offences," says Niall Mullen. "Or he should never have started because he is one of the game's great spoofers." First one could have been a straight red in the current climate.
56 min Arshavin misses a wonderful chance to make it 3-2. With Smalling trapped upfield, he took a long pass in his stride on the left wing, ran past Jones into the box, but then dragged his shot wide of the near post from only eight yards. He should have scored.
58 min It's all Arsenal at the moment.
59 min Tom Cleverley misses a fine chance at the other end. He played a gorgeous one-two with Hernandez on the edge of the box, with the return pass putting him through on goal, but then he telegraphed a first-time sidefoot towards the far corner. He didn't catch it properly either, and Szczesny plunged to his left to save easily. It was a tame end to a lovely move.
60 min This has been such an enjoyable game, full of fearless and imaginative attacking play from both sides.
62 min That should have been 4-1. First Szczesny dived to his right to beat away a fine effort from Young, struck fiercely from the inside-left channel, and then Nani completely missed his kick when he was just six yards from goal.
63 min An Arsenal substitution: Francis Coquelin is replaced by Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, who is making his Arsenal debut I think. Arshavin will move infield to play behind Van Persie, with Rosicky and Ramsey as the deeper midfielders.
GOAL! Manchester United 4-1 Arsenal (Rooney 64) Another wonderful free kick from Wayne Rooney. This one was 22 yards out, a fair way to the right of centre. Szczesny expected a clip to the near post, but Rooney completely fooled him by whipping the ball over the wall and into the far corner. It was, as Martin Tyler says on Sky, Beckham-like in its deception and execution. A fantastic goal.
66 min Rooney gives away a corner from 70 yards. I think he was trying to punt a loose ball back to De Gea, but he made a balls of it. The corner comes to nothing.
GOAL! Manchester United 5-1 Arsenal (Nani 67) This is getting silly. Rooney's angled through ball puts Nani through on goal in a scandalous amount of space, and he chips the ball cockily over Szczesny. That was a shocking bit of defending, with Arsenal's offside line all over the place. The left centre back and left back were at least five yards in front of the other two defenders. Somewhere in BBC Towers, Lee Dixon is doing his nut.
68 min United make a double substitution, with Giggs and Park replacing Anderson and Nani.
69 min An awesome chip from Rooney hits the post. He picked the ball up from Park, had a quick look and then coaxed a glorious effort across goal and over Szczesny. It looked like it was drifting in for his hat-trick, but instead it clattered off the post. Arsenal have gone now, they are completely shot.
GOAL! Manchester United 6-1 Arsenal (Park 70) Fifteen seconds after Rooney hits the post, Park makes it 6-1, just like it was against Arsenal on this ground ten years ago. Young cut the ball back to Park, on the edge of the box, and he dragged a very accurate low shot across Szczesny and into the far corner. It's his 17th goal against Arsenal in a United shirt.
72 min If United win 7-1 they will jump above City to go top of the table.
73 min Koscielny heads a deep corner just wide. Of the United goal that is; Arsenal haven't completely lost it.
74 min "With every goal," says Lorcan McGrath, "Bolton's board lick their lips and add another £500k to Gary Cahill's valuation."
GOAL! Manchester United 6-2 Arsenal (Van Persie 74) Now the score is a repeat of 1990 rather than 2001. The ball ricochets around the box, and Van Persie welts it angrily past De Gea from six yards.
76 min Walcott's deflected stinger is well held by De Gea. This has been a ridiculous game, with nearly 40 shots on goal.
76 min: RED CARD It gets worse for Arsenal: Carl Jenkinson has been sent off. It was fair enough. He was on a yellow card, and he bundled Hernandez over on the edge of the box. It could have been a straight red, as he was the last man and Hernandez was clear.
78 min Rooney tries to make it a hat-trick of free kicks from the resulting set piece, but he flips his shot wide of the near post.
79 min Walcott is now playing right back for Arsenal.
80 min A poor touch from Park ends a crisp attacking move. Had he controlled it properly he would have been through on goal.
81 min: PENALTY TO MAN UTD Walcott brings down Evra in the box, a clumsy and fairly innocuous challenge. A soft penalty, but a penalty.
GOAL! Manchester United 7-2 Arsenal (Rooney 81 pen) Rooney gets his hat-trick, sidefooting the ball low into the bottom-right corner as Szczesny dives the other way. This is just crazy, park football played between men and boys.
83 min This is cruel. Arsene Wenger doesn't deserve this.
84 min Arsenal bring on Marouane Chamakh and Henri Lansbury for Van Persie and Walcott. Apparently the last time Arsenal conceded seven was in 1927, before Herbert Chapman. Dear me.
85 min "I suppose this season it's going to be The Battle For Football's Soul - Fergie's young guns versus the Money of City," says John Reid. "The losers - a competitive League."
86 min Ramsey stabs a decent effort wide from the edge of the box.
87 min Proof that journalists know nothing: last night my colleague Jacob Steinberg suggested United would win this 6-1. Sack him.
88 min "Wenger has taken off his two goalscorers," says Robert Darby. "Has he given up?" At 7-2 with four minutes to go, I'd be more worried if he hadn't given up.
89 min That was nearly an eighth goal for United. Rooney drilled an outrageous 60-yard pass to Smalling on the right; he crossed it low towards the near post, and Hernandez just couldn't quite get there. Any kind of touch and it was in.
90 min There will be three minutes' added misery for Arsenal.
GOAL! Manchester United 8-2 Arsenal (Young 90+2 min) Yep, it's Manchester United 8-2 Arsenal. Yep. Young sweeps another stunning curler into the far top corner, this time from inside the box. It's a significant goal, because it means United jump above City and go top of the league. There is a history of United gazumping City, from 1968 to 1999, and on a small level they have done so tonight with a staggering performance.
90+2 min "Lansbury's always around when there's been a murder," honks Niall Mullen.
90+3 min Park misses a great chance to make it nine, blazing over from Evra's cut back. In fact it was deflected, although no corner was given. This is one of the most remarkable matches of football I have ever seen.
Full time: Manchester United 8-2 Arsenal Look at the scoreline! Just look at the scoreline! Don't try to make any sense of it; there's no chance. It's hard to know what the big story is, really: Manchester United were as wonderful as Arsenal were terrible. I won't try to sum the game up, as I'd quite like to be out of work before midnight. After today, let nobody say you can't win 8-2 with kids. Thanks for your emails; night.
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